Having been Elon Musk’s first wife and the mother of his five children, Justine Musk has a lot to say about her life with the now-famous businessman. At the TEDxUIUC conference, she gives a talk titled “Visionaries are People Who Can See in the Dark” and shares everything from their early college days to the highs and lows of relationships.

“I was eighteen when I met him. She claims that he was 19. When they first met in college, Elon was already displaying the tenacity for which he is now renowned. “Every time he called to ask me out, I would decline. This continued until we eventually moved in together.

At first, they lived in a modest apartment with three other people and a dachshund that, in her words, “was not house trained.” She quips later, even after they’ve achieved success and moved into a Bel Air home, “The dachshund still was not house trained.” Moments like this are shared by Justine, reminding us that some things remained the same despite their ascent to the top.

Elon’s character? She also recalls that. She remembers that “he always put ‘engineer’ on forms instead of ‘CEO,’” despite the fact that many people view him as this legendary figure. What about his clothes? Basically, T-shirts and jeans. “I can’t look cool or hip because I have to look like an engineer,” he would insist, even when a stylist attempted to change his appearance.

Elon’s statement in an interview that he was “prepared to sacrifice everything” to fulfill his ambition of launching a rocket into orbit, even if it meant the whole family ending up in her parents’ basement, was one of Justine’s more startling moments. “I wanted to go back in time and tell him, ‘Have you seen my parents’ basement?’” she asks with her usual wit.

She also talked about the line that stuck with her and how Elon was portrayed in The Simpsons. According to a character, “someone like Elon must have a darkness in his soul.” For Justine, that statement resonated. She goes on to say, “Darkness doesn’t mean evil… it can mean anything that hasn’t yet been brought to the light,” as a dark fantasy author. That viewpoint on Elon’s thoughts contributes to the portrayal of a man motivated by concepts that the majority of us will never completely comprehend.

Justine provides a humorous and perceptive perspective on Elon as she looks back on their years together, illustrating what it’s truly like to live with someone whose goals go well beyond the ordinary. She claims that “visionaries take their passion and put themselves on the line unlike anybody else,” and it’s evident from her anecdotes that Elon was no different.